craig said somewhere they dont want to show up any of the newer consoles emulator to be safe until the hardware is out, just protecting the proyect from Nintendo & Sony
It seems a bit reluctant when he’s trying to fullscreen the video, but that might just be PEBKAC. Later on when he’s launching Quake and then some music it looks fine.
DJWillis says it is _too_ responsive. It takes way more counts than it should which means that if you even flinch and hit in two rather close spots they are counted separately instead of a double click. On top of that, the double click action is fast and won’t accept slower clicks like a guy at arms length away from the tiny little icons and text would need. It’s just software and the settings need tweaking.
In fact, I’d say double-click with a stylus is to be avoided wherever possible, regardless. Holding a mouse perfectly still to double-click isn’t hard, but tapping the same pixel twice with a stylus is pretty difficult!
On my Windows Mobile phone, I almost never need to double-tap; even the file browser uses a single-tap action for opening stuff. I’d try configuring XFCE for single-click-open (assuming it is supported) and see how that feels.
It’s because the thing has 800×480 resolution (high) on that screen (small), and the software hasn’t been configured so that two clicks within like 20 pixels are a double click, it still thinks they should be within 1 or 2 pixels. Try hitting the same pixel twice on that little thing!
Does the touchscreen actually have the full 800×480 resolution?
Maybe also because they are using a stylus over a mouse cursor.
Have you already try to do normal things with only a D-Pad ? Not practical at all !!
Is this possible to work out something to avoid the mouse cursor input style ?
A stylus isn’t a mouse at all…
At least in Windows, if you move the mouse between the clicks it does not count as a double click. If the same thing applies here you must tap the screen exactly in the same spot twice for a double click to work.
Yes what you are seeing is they are not double tapping in the range of pixels that would record a double click. Check out tweak UI in windows you can adjust the distance of pixels that will register a drag or double click. Some Linux distros have the same ability to adjust how large an area will register. Simple stuff people are getting all worked up about.
Also watch how he is using the stylus to keep the screen in view instead of the back of his hand. It will certainly be better when your not trying to film using the device and just using the pandora.
maybe the doubleclick could be avoided by a system where you navigate with the stylus and then L1 for the click? configureable to reverse for lefties. of course some instances the stylus click is necessary, but it could be a good option, especially if the mouse clicks are being controlled with the L and R buttons?
that sounds like it could be a nice idea. also, perhaps a shoulder button press could be used to dull the sensitivity like making the click detection and X/Y sensitive a bit broader and cover more pixels.
The Pandora is a great example of the old addage “Cheap, Fast and Good. You can only have 2 of the three.” I’m very very glad they went with Cheap and Good. I can’t wait till production really ramps up and I can pick them up as gifts.
i think he is referring to the production. you can have something produced fast and good quality but its expensive, you can have something made cheap and fast but it is not good, and in the pandoras case we have something cheap and good at the expense of it taking a really long time
But “good” in gaming devices refers to “good for its time”, doesn’t it? What was good in 2008 is not quite as good in 2009, and it looks like the Pandora will need at least one more year. In terms of UMPC-features it will be quite useless by then, so the overall “goodness” surely has taken quite a dive too, due to its “slowness”.
Most of it’s gamming will be retro gaming, sure there’ll be some new games but it’s rare that indy games ever “push” a system like the way PCs and consoles are pushed by their massive budgeted games. As for it’s usefulness, there are plenty of uses that it’s perfectly suitable for simply because of it’s size that “slowness” wouldnt have had any effect on.
its limit will be its connectivity and raw processing power for sure, but there is going to be a limit of what features you want and need. no, it does not have 3G but that can be done via USB, no it does not have a webcam or L2 or R2 buttons, but you can get a USB webcam and the level of emulation that it will do does not really require those buttons.
the fact that afaik the software side is completely open compared to closed software devices means that it will age better than its contemporaries as well. something new come out? install it and connect to it with the universally used USB ports rather than the one proprietory port of the closed device.
the only place it will age is raw processing power, but considering how lightly people run some systems (with linux and other systems like BeOS) for a great deal of people, this wont age very quickly at all!
They can always come out with an upgraded model in a few years. Then certain games could say “Requires a pandora 2″. As long as they don’t make too many different models it should work out. Also maybe load times would be better even if there are no extra games.
There’s no L2 or R2, and there is some game emulation where you’d want those buttons (as well as possibly L3 and R3) however you’ve got an entire keyboard to remap from.
And as far as power, No portable matches the performance of the home-game stations, and Pandora still performs well compared to Playstation Portable and Nintendo DS, and is more useful as a general-purpose PDA so I don’t have to carry one of those around as well for my shopping lists, to-do lists, computer-component spec lists, notes about random ideas I have on a whim but will forget later…
I would like to point that you are wrong. Old is still as good as back then. They don’t go bad, they get old.
NES is old, PSX is old. Windows 2000 is good but new software run on it bad, Windows ME is bad to the bone. Don’t say old stuff is bad, say they’re old. Only food goes bad when it gets old
I don’t think this is going to be a huge problem, even for people looking to do higher-end content.
The way I see it, it’s a little like having a portable Dreamcast with an order of magnitude more system RAM and vertex and fragment shader support and a much higher fill rate. Assuming this to be a reasonable comparison, than even by ’09/’10 standards, it’s pretty powerful for a game machine.
To take the comparison further: going back and looking at old DC games, where the polygon counts aren’t too high, but everything is vivid and well-animated (and ages well – Phantasy Star Online still looks and feels pretty modern to me a decade later), tells me that, if some indie apps manage to tap even half of the system resources, the games will be amazing.
I love the ARM chip. Programmed right, this Pandora can be faster than an intel-powered netbook with a higher clock rate. I don’t know if any of you used the Acorn Archimedes series computers, for which the ARM was invented. Running at 8Mhz it was a fast, powerful, responsive computer. The Pandora runs at about 100 times that speed, has vastly more RAM and storage, has two types of floating point hardware, and has 3D hardware.
So if the Pandora feels slow in any way for any application, compared to a netbook or PC, you can figure the programmer or compiler coded the Pandora version badly.
Even compiler-generated ARM code is more compact than x86 code. The ARM has instructions “LDM” and “STM” which can load and save any subset of the 16 registers with a single instruction, optionally updating a pointer.
Every opcode can be conditional. for simple things there is no need for the verbose test branch-if true-block branch false-block, just test trueop-eq falseop-ne.
There is a reason why the ARM is the most popular / common processor in the world today, it is a brilliant little machine, and, programmed right, it can whip any junky intel processor. well maybe it won’t whip a 4-core multi GHz machine but for power efficiency you can’t beat it!
Who wants an intel-powered handheld that lasts for 1 0 minutes before the batteries give out?
I consider the Pandora’s “no built in 3G” and “no built in storage” to be good features. I don’t have to constantly microwave myself when I’m working or playing games. I can plug in newer comms devices and larger storage as needed and as it is developed. My Eee PC came with 16Gb storage built-in, and one SD slot. So I can’t put 2x 32Gb SD cards in it. With pandora, I suppose I will be able to put 2x 64Gb SD cards in it or larger when they become affordable.
Curious, I remember there being a windows tool for the Logitech Dual Action controller that let you map keys to the controller buttons… it also allowed you to map mouse movement to the analog stick and mouse clicks to any of the buttons… would it be possible to whip something together that let you use the one of the nubs for mouse movement and map two of the action buttons (or even the shoulder buttons) to left and right mouse clicks (everywhere except games that need said buttons to function in other modes)?
Creative use of his microwave spin plate.
That was my first thought as well.
lol it does have big ressemblance of my microwave plate…
(serving suggestion
)
apparently it matches all our microwave plates because it’s the same as mine as well.
Maybe it is a microwave plate.
(also looks like mine btw)
The stylus has a nice satisfying click when placed back in
Thinking that myself.
Looks like we won’t be loosing them any time soon
Eff, forgot to mention that I think this was a really well done sample. I liked that we saw the four of those badboys running.
This is what I was waiting for truthfully. I’ve said it multiple times, when we get to this point, we’ve basically crossed the finish line.
Maybe we could see a little N64 action… maybe?
Actually, it was all five of them: four on the microwave tray and one off to the side. I guess I needed a bigger microwave.
craig said somewhere they dont want to show up any of the newer consoles emulator to be safe until the hardware is out, just protecting the proyect from Nintendo & Sony
Is it just me or is the touchscreen not very responsive?
It seems a bit reluctant when he’s trying to fullscreen the video, but that might just be PEBKAC. Later on when he’s launching Quake and then some music it looks fine.
DJWillis says it is _too_ responsive. It takes way more counts than it should which means that if you even flinch and hit in two rather close spots they are counted separately instead of a double click. On top of that, the double click action is fast and won’t accept slower clicks like a guy at arms length away from the tiny little icons and text would need.
It’s just software and the settings need tweaking.
In fact, I’d say double-click with a stylus is to be avoided wherever possible, regardless. Holding a mouse perfectly still to double-click isn’t hard, but tapping the same pixel twice with a stylus is pretty difficult!
On my Windows Mobile phone, I almost never need to double-tap; even the file browser uses a single-tap action for opening stuff. I’d try configuring XFCE for single-click-open (assuming it is supported) and see how that feels.
With linux, isnt it supposed to be click and hold, rather than double click?
Ok, thanks for the responses. The click and hold solution seems perfect.
Yeah, quite often the touch screen took a number of attempts to double click (opening the movie to full screen etc) any ideas on why this is?
It’s because the thing has 800×480 resolution (high) on that screen (small), and the software hasn’t been configured so that two clicks within like 20 pixels are a double click, it still thinks they should be within 1 or 2 pixels. Try hitting the same pixel twice on that little thing!
Does the touchscreen actually have the full 800×480 resolution?
they have said that they havent gotten the touch screen calibration quite right.
nice title.
Maybe also because they are using a stylus over a mouse cursor.
Have you already try to do normal things with only a D-Pad ? Not practical at all !!
Is this possible to work out something to avoid the mouse cursor input style ?
A stylus isn’t a mouse at all…
What movie was it?
One based on actual events. Only the names were changed to respect the privacy of the people involved.
anchorman
Thanks MWeston
Please please please can we see some keyboard videos so we can check how the Pandora compares against a tiny netbook for typing?
At least in Windows, if you move the mouse between the clicks it does not count as a double click. If the same thing applies here you must tap the screen exactly in the same spot twice for a double click to work.
Yes what you are seeing is they are not double tapping in the range of pixels that would record a double click. Check out tweak UI in windows you can adjust the distance of pixels that will register a drag or double click. Some Linux distros have the same ability to adjust how large an area will register. Simple stuff people are getting all worked up about.
Also watch how he is using the stylus to keep the screen in view instead of the back of his hand. It will certainly be better when your not trying to film using the device and just using the pandora.
I get the impression that the built in speakers really outputs some good sound
Yeah I noticed that.
With the Pandora being made more for personal and portable use, I really didn’t expect the speakers to be up to much.
Colour me surprised
the pandora version of the compiz cube
maybe the doubleclick could be avoided by a system where you navigate with the stylus and then L1 for the click? configureable to reverse for lefties. of course some instances the stylus click is necessary, but it could be a good option, especially if the mouse clicks are being controlled with the L and R buttons?
not sure how well that would work
Maybe a click while holding a shoulder button automatically registers as a double-click. That’d be nice.
that sounds like it could be a nice idea. also, perhaps a shoulder button press could be used to dull the sensitivity like making the click detection and X/Y sensitive a bit broader and cover more pixels.
The Pandora is a great example of the old addage “Cheap, Fast and Good. You can only have 2 of the three.” I’m very very glad they went with Cheap and Good. I can’t wait till production really ramps up and I can pick them up as gifts.
I hope you don’t mean that the Pandora is slow ^^
i think he is referring to the production. you can have something produced fast and good quality but its expensive, you can have something made cheap and fast but it is not good, and in the pandoras case we have something cheap and good at the expense of it taking a really long time
But “good” in gaming devices refers to “good for its time”, doesn’t it? What was good in 2008 is not quite as good in 2009, and it looks like the Pandora will need at least one more year. In terms of UMPC-features it will be quite useless by then, so the overall “goodness” surely has taken quite a dive too, due to its “slowness”.
Most of it’s gamming will be retro gaming, sure there’ll be some new games but it’s rare that indy games ever “push” a system like the way PCs and consoles are pushed by their massive budgeted games. As for it’s usefulness, there are plenty of uses that it’s perfectly suitable for simply because of it’s size that “slowness” wouldnt have had any effect on.
its limit will be its connectivity and raw processing power for sure, but there is going to be a limit of what features you want and need. no, it does not have 3G but that can be done via USB, no it does not have a webcam or L2 or R2 buttons, but you can get a USB webcam and the level of emulation that it will do does not really require those buttons.
the fact that afaik the software side is completely open compared to closed software devices means that it will age better than its contemporaries as well. something new come out? install it and connect to it with the universally used USB ports rather than the one proprietory port of the closed device.
the only place it will age is raw processing power, but considering how lightly people run some systems (with linux and other systems like BeOS) for a great deal of people, this wont age very quickly at all!
They can always come out with an upgraded model in a few years. Then certain games could say “Requires a pandora 2″. As long as they don’t make too many different models it should work out. Also maybe load times would be better even if there are no extra games.
There’s no L2 or R2, and there is some game emulation where you’d want those buttons (as well as possibly L3 and R3) however you’ve got an entire keyboard to remap from.
And as far as power, No portable matches the performance of the home-game stations, and Pandora still performs well compared to Playstation Portable and Nintendo DS, and is more useful as a general-purpose PDA so I don’t have to carry one of those around as well for my shopping lists, to-do lists, computer-component spec lists, notes about random ideas I have on a whim but will forget later…
I would like to point that you are wrong. Old is still as good as back then. They don’t go bad, they get old.
NES is old, PSX is old. Windows 2000 is good but new software run on it bad, Windows ME is bad to the bone. Don’t say old stuff is bad, say they’re old. Only food goes bad when it gets old
I don’t think this is going to be a huge problem, even for people looking to do higher-end content.
The way I see it, it’s a little like having a portable Dreamcast with an order of magnitude more system RAM and vertex and fragment shader support and a much higher fill rate. Assuming this to be a reasonable comparison, than even by ’09/’10 standards, it’s pretty powerful for a game machine.
To take the comparison further: going back and looking at old DC games, where the polygon counts aren’t too high, but everything is vivid and well-animated (and ages well – Phantasy Star Online still looks and feels pretty modern to me a decade later), tells me that, if some indie apps manage to tap even half of the system resources, the games will be amazing.
I love the ARM chip. Programmed right, this Pandora can be faster than an intel-powered netbook with a higher clock rate. I don’t know if any of you used the Acorn Archimedes series computers, for which the ARM was invented. Running at 8Mhz it was a fast, powerful, responsive computer. The Pandora runs at about 100 times that speed, has vastly more RAM and storage, has two types of floating point hardware, and has 3D hardware.
So if the Pandora feels slow in any way for any application, compared to a netbook or PC, you can figure the programmer or compiler coded the Pandora version badly.
Even compiler-generated ARM code is more compact than x86 code. The ARM has instructions “LDM” and “STM” which can load and save any subset of the 16 registers with a single instruction, optionally updating a pointer.
Every opcode can be conditional. for simple things there is no need for the verbose test branch-if true-block branch false-block, just test trueop-eq falseop-ne.
There is a reason why the ARM is the most popular / common processor in the world today, it is a brilliant little machine, and, programmed right, it can whip any junky intel processor. well maybe it won’t whip a 4-core multi GHz machine but for power efficiency you can’t beat it!
Who wants an intel-powered handheld that lasts for 1 0 minutes before the batteries give out?
I consider the Pandora’s “no built in 3G” and “no built in storage” to be good features. I don’t have to constantly microwave myself when I’m working or playing games. I can plug in newer comms devices and larger storage as needed and as it is developed. My Eee PC came with 16Gb storage built-in, and one SD slot. So I can’t put 2x 32Gb SD cards in it. With pandora, I suppose I will be able to put 2x 64Gb SD cards in it or larger when they become affordable.
I’d be happy with one of these
It is a cool device.
Give them a chance to make it great!
Sweet vid! Liking what I’m seeing. Can’t wait!
Curious, I remember there being a windows tool for the Logitech Dual Action controller that let you map keys to the controller buttons… it also allowed you to map mouse movement to the analog stick and mouse clicks to any of the buttons… would it be possible to whip something together that let you use the one of the nubs for mouse movement and map two of the action buttons (or even the shoulder buttons) to left and right mouse clicks (everywhere except games that need said buttons to function in other modes)?
Just wonder why Pandora No3 does not have screws in it.